Lean and other Six Sigma Certification

I agree with your statement but let us examine this idea in more detail. I received my Masters Certificate in Six Sigma from Villanova. I then passed the Certified Lean Six Sigma Black Belt exam from ASQ. I am now told by the Army that I must pass their exam to be recognized as a Black Belt since they do not recognize anybody else.

When I look at the job description of a Black Belt I feel that it should not matter who certifies you as long as you can demonstrate that you understand the concepts involved. A control chart is a control chart; p-factor is p-factor, etc. The industry will never be able to standardize the certification until the industry selects a governing body to perform the standardization. In an evolving industry where money is the overriding concern, no organization will forfeit the opportunity to control its destiny. Today every organization can proclaim itself to be the top dog and attract its share of the wealth.

Performance is nebulous and making it the standard bearer could be even more problematic than examination. If a standard says that an applicant must perform a control chart, a Pareto chart, and a DOE to be certified, then applicants will perform these functions regardless of applicability. If we set a dollar threshold for a project to count, then the applicant will adjust the figures accordingly. What we must look at ultimately is the purpose of certification and let the consumer decide what to accept.

Gary:

You make an excellent point. My purpose for raising the question is not to deter from the wonderful work being done by skilled practioners, but rather to prevent watered down versions of the green belt and black certification process from making headway in the corporate training market. Other than my graduate degree, I have two other certifications a Red CRoss Water Safety Instructor (which has timed out since I have not taught swimming since 1978 and my CRC (Certified Rehabilitaiton Counselor) Both required a standardized exam which was monitored and administered by a Authorized Certification Agency.

The purpose of certification is to guarantee minimum skills not guarantee results. I simply raised the question to see if others have thought about it. Thanks for the dialogue.

Stephen

You guys have valid points. I have taken SS courses from Villanova online. I wasn't enthralled with the quality of the program, however it did augment my SS initiatives at work.

In my opinion, it all boils down to individual drive and ability. Someone can have all the degrees and credentials in the world and still be useless.

Scott

I strongly agree that there should be a governing body that provides widely-accepted certification; however, I feel this will always be challenged by most companies for three reasons. First, it will always inherently be to the company’s advantage to require new employees to earn their green or black belts from them or their chosen certifying agency because it familiarizes them with the company’s processes/culture by performing a lean/six sigma project. Second, the company clearly benefits by having their employees take part in company-specific process improvement projects; reduces cost/errors, saves times, etc. Third, even though there’s (typically) standardization among the tools used in earning a green/black belt, earning it from one employer/industry may not be applicable to a future employer/industry (i.e. going from Aerospace to Healthcare). However, all that said, it certainly doesn’t hurt to get certified by a widely-recognized (and reputable) certifier like ASQ or Villanova.

Stephan

I worked for a fortune 100 company which introduced a new requirement that each plant have 2 or more Black Belts. Initially they dictated a specific training program. This program, along with travel expenses, would have cost my plant well over $25k per individual. I wrote a proposal to have ASQ certification also accepted and they approved it. I took the test and passed and submitted the required experience documentation. The total cost for my certification was a few hundred dollars, but they would not let me take credit for the $25k savings as a SS Project :)

I had over 25 years experience in quality engineering and management when I took the test, so I didn't require any additional training, though I bought a couple of reference books (ASQ exams are open book).

Small & medium sized companies and the public sector are likely to find ASQ certification to be the most desirable because of ASQ’s independent professional standing.

Susan

I'm in the process of taking an ASQ-sponsored review course for the ASQ CSSBB certification exam. I did the same search for a certification as Stephen, but chose the ASQ as being the most widely recognized among my peers. Although I'm "certified" by GE who did our initial training, I wanted a more nationally recognized certification (on the theory that you can't have too many letters after your name).

Coming from the laboratory profession, in which certification by a national accrediting agency is the norm, this approach made sense to me. The parallel with the laboratory certification is that, as Chris pointed out, the exam only indicates that you have met the minimum requirements of knowledge. Your company will always have to train you in "their way." The labs who hire certified Clinical Laboratory Scientists don't expect that you can walk in and work; they expect that they'll have to train you in their SOPs.

Side note: I'm taking the review course because in healthcare, most of our data is not normally distributed so I'm a little weak in the statistical analysis of normal data, funny as that may sound! (But I can kick but with Chi Square and Mood's Median!)

Thanks Stephen for your comments - this is an area that I believe can use further discussion.

p.s. You can also take a look at Andrew Downard's blog from June 27, 2006, which raises interesting points about this same topic.

I would tend to agree that there should be one certifying body, though I don't think that means that each company couldn't continue to hire and train their own LSS Black and Green Belts. As many of you have mentioned there are the same basic tools and knowledge that are used in the methodology, how you apply to tools and knowledge depends on what company you work for. Possibly if certification was standardized and there was one certifying body, a SS certified MBB could be given the authority to proctor the certification exams. For example, if the company were to bring on (either by hiring them outright or obtain as a consultant) a SS certified MBB to train and certify, the certification could still happen on the company's terms, but would also be recognized globally as well.

Hello Stephan,

I recommend certifying with ASQ CSSBB. As a Master Black Belt in Ford Motor Company's Global Six Sigma Office, ASQ is recognized as the best within the US. However, ASQ's popularity in Europe is not as strong. I hope this helps.

fyi. To prepare I recommend Quality Council of Indiana's CSSBB Primer

This is a great discussion and one that is well overdue! Gary's story is one that hear all too often, especially in government. After creating and delivering the Dept of Defense's BPR Certification Training Program for over ten years and our latest Lean Six Sigma for Government Certification Program, I saw, and continue to see, many of the students that participate in our training program being interested in only the certification itself because it was "endorsed" by the DoD. It really surprised me how many were more interested in meeting the requirement for certification than they were in being a great process improvement practitioner.

As Stephen said, I agree that certification can't guarantee results, however, the training behind the certification should be designed to motivate and encourage the participant to want to become the best practitioner he/she can be. That motivational focus seems to have gotten lost. The technical skills (which are certainly very important) have remained the sole focus of many training and certification curricula leaving out what I believe is the most important quality of the BB or MBB, and that is the ability to lead organization change.

Thanks for the opportunity!

I m not working in this field but I did som master in quality.You would recomnd me the training classe from Mc Gill for CSSB and CQE.
I m not sure if in Europe it is recognized ASQ certification.
I should risk to take this classes on my own also because I m mechanical engineer.

Please advice,

Valentina

I am currently enrolled in a SSBB at Drexel University. Drexel is an accredited university so I assume this program is also accredited in some way. Now if ASQ is more recognized, do you suggest I should re-take the certification exam from ASQ? I don't see the point. If the material is the same and what matters is how well I apply it, the certification should be okay from anywhere. I agree maybe the certification exam should come from maybe one agency alone, but that is not the case right now.

Hi Rahul:
I think most all of the SSBB training programs have much of the same basic information. ASQ was the training most recognized as a standard but it is not official as far as I know. Villanova has a program and Sig Sigma itself networks with some training organizations that sponsor SSBB training. So I agree with your conclusion.

The proof will how effective you are in the organization you work for. The fact that you have passed a SSBB course and test demonstrates a certain level of cognitive knowledge of lean thinking, Value Stream Mapping and process analysis facilitation. But, as I am sure you know, clearly identifying the process, the non value added activities which will result in a more efficient process is the key.
Good luck in your achievement.

Steve Crate

I obtained my greenbelt certification from the univeristy of michigan and I just finished my lean certification from villanova. My blackbelt certification course begins november 1, 2007.

I plan on finishing this course to obtain my certification, but also plan on being certified through ASQ.

My thought would be if you are certified by either one you can still state that you are a blackbelt, corret?

I would say you are correct. But... in the world of HR competencies are the important thing. I am suggesting that as an industry we get together and have a certifying agency that is recognized with standardized competencies. Then all certificates would be transferrable to other cites.

I'm confused.

I paid for the Lean SS from Villanova On-Line to increase my knowledge of quality and to get the cert.

I start on 2 FEB 2008.

I also paid for the Lean Sensei cert. test for $200 from Villanova.

My questions are simple.

"What are the requirements for getting a SS Lean Sensei Cert.?

"What does it take to keep a SS Lean Sensei Cert.?"

Here in South Florida, any SS cert. (with a PMP cert.) goes a long way! I’m trying to “keep-it-on-the-Lean-side”.

Hi,

My name is vaibhav, I am presently working in a Software company as Software Testing Engineer ,I have complated my MCA degree before,Now I would like to go for some further studies which can give me some professional growth & Some more technical strenth to my present Job Role thts why I am planning to go for six sigma green belt certification conducted by Motorola University.....I request you to all please share your thoughts on this idea Or please guide on this path.....thnks a lot

One of the gentlemen that I work with claims to be a Six Sigma Black Belt: How can one be sure of such a claim? What steps has Six Sigma taken to ensure the integrity of their certification?

The last two comments warrant a brief response. The Black Belt Six Sigma certifications indicate an understanding of the technology of process analysis. They do not guarantee successful project implementation. This is similar to reviewing the credentials of someone who has a bachelor’s degree or master’s degree. These indicate a level of cognitive and academic understanding but do not assure performance. Performance can only be measured by specific evidence. The results are the key, not the label.

If you want to determine what level of competence someone may have in Six Sigma or any other lean process project management, simply ask them to describe a project or two they have been responsible for. How much muda did they discover? What was the dollar savings? What was the product or service being offered? These are quick and easy references that a skilled SSBB should be able to provide. Again the certification is only a starting point. The proof is in the pudding.

I am seeking a definitive answer to the following questions: What Six Sigma certification must a trainer possess to provide training and certification on SS Yellow Belt; SS Green Belt? In the absence of a group or organization to review some type of "Standardized " assessment that can be administered upon completion of the instruction, who actually certifies the "skill achievement"?

Very interesting topic line as I am looking to gain SSBB certification from an approved trainer/training organisation. However, it would appear:
a. There is no central certification body that awards certificates for grades, sets examinations and conducts standards tests on the quality of delivery of training to a prescribed standard.
b. Motorola don't appear to give a *$&% about who uses their product name in vane.

I am proposing to set up the following. NB I've purchased a book, read a bit, and found its all within my intellectual capability.

a. On completing the book, appoint myself a Master Black Belt.
b. Establish a dohjo (sp) for the training of 6-Sigma. I'm thinking of calling my dohjo, the Mickey Mouse 6-Sigma University, or the Bart Simpson School of 6-Sigma. There are probably copyright/legal issues with the names!
c. Develop my own course material
d. Set my own really easy exams, or even just have course work, which would lead to extensive cheating and plagiarism and further degrade the purpose and standing of the qualification. (At this point remember not to confuse qualification with competence. Qualifications are gained from passing exams - competency is demonstrated with the correct application of skills and knowledge)


My point, probably as the is the case with the original poster, is that every training organisation should be training to a prescribed standard syllabus so that there is parity amongst training providers and holders of certificates.

As with martial arts and academia, grading and exams are about qualification, they do not necessarily reflect competence. Hence, my concerns continue over choosing an appropriate provider. Is there even a central register somewhere of MBBs?

It concerns me that I can do an on-line course for approximately $1000, or do a residential course for $6000. Is there really parity in the certificate that is awarded at the end of these?

This Blog has really helped after weeks of researching online courses for Six Sigma. For those of you who have used ASQ and Villanova - I find Villanova's price excessive in comparison to some of the other programs - was ASQ of the same quality? Does it make a difference from where you receive the certification? I had been researching Villanova and a company called AVeta. Aveta is $495.00 for Green Belt and $1095.00 for Black but if you choose to do Green then Black they only charge you the difference. Villanova on the other hand $3K and $5K. HUGE difference. Does it really matter that much or from experience for those of you who did it through ASQ was that just as good (they are actually cheaper than Aveta).

I would REALLY appreciate any feedback.

Thanks!

ASQ is actually in between Aveta and Villanova in price - sorry about that confusion. See I really need the course! :-)

Everyone's comments have been really helpful as I explore whether to do a Six Sigma certification.

I've been an independent consultant in health care for a while and would like to enter the corporate arena in project management.

Would you all recommend Six Sigma certification as a way to ease entry into this field?

Robyn, did you decide on Aveta or Villanova for SS certification?

Could anyone tell me if the online course at Villanova is better than Aveta or if i should look into any other online program?

I just looked at Aveta then found this blog. I will look at the other two on line coarses mentioned. It seems the information provided by Aveta is very detailed. By the way on there Q&A , they say Six Segma has no accreadiation for the coarse and if a Unv applies that there is one they are misleading you. I hold my Health, Life and Accident lic with the state of GA (certifying body) and the CE is required every year. It has it's good and bad. Who really wants to recertify every year? Standards are good, price can still be low and high depending on the coarse as long as the test is by one governing body. That is the way my current licence is held and it works.

A new wave of change is occuring in Healthcare. Standardization and Accreditation (NABH, JCAHO - JCI, ISO) is fast becoming a necessity for managing processes under an efficient Quality Management System. This requires a team leader who can drive this change and break age-old shackles of person-based processes in Hospitals.

I'm currently subserving this function in my Hospital in India. Will Black Belt training and certification be a welcome value addition for the kind of activities I'm involved with (Documentation, Quality Indicator reporting & analysis, CQI, training etc.)?

I've gone through many sites and found the course offered by Aveta Business Solutions the most suitable in view of my time and job constraints. Could you please tell me what the implications of getting the Aveta course are? Is this recognized world-wide? Is it valued in Business circles?

Would appreciate your inputs.
Thanks and Regards!

Hi, i am profesional accountant from india. i have heard lot about six sigma. i m incl;ined towards this. but i do not understand how do i proceed.

my job profile is process review, i think six sigma will be added advantage for me in my job. my basic knowledge for six sigma is:2 levels, green belt & black belt, no recogined university, one has to learn privetly, but just one thing i wud like to know.is certification done after project submission??how to get project?? can i opt for distance learning SS program?? is nay practical training on job involved in this??

guys, pls show me some direction.

Thanks

I just signed up for the Villanova Lean SS program. Has anyone taken the certification test? If so can you tell what the format of the test is, i.e. multiple choice, essays, statistics, etc.

Thanks,

Rich

It is our opinion that ASQ certification is the best certification. However, not everyone has the time or initiative for self study.

Many online courses, such as www.bmgi.com , www.motorola.com/motorolauniversity.jsp , and www.1stcourses.com enable a large amount of material to be learned with a self-paced course.

Live courses are good, but most people find a few weeks simply insufficient to learn a complicated subject.

Hi All.

I found this blog quite relevant and useful.
I have 5 years of production experience in aerospace industry.

I am interested in black belt certification. I am from India, but will be working in Europe, more in Spain, France etc.

Which certification is best recognised in Europe? BSI (British Standard Institution) or ASQ or any other.

Please advice. Later I dont wish to jump from one certification body to another just for recognition. I want to understand the SS process and apply.

Hello:

I would suggest that you read the comments above if you havn't yet. Then I would consider the context of the site you will be working in. The ASQ organization is recognized world wide and if companies in Europe are represented in their membership that might be a good place to start. I think the most important factor is what is the practical experience you need to facilitate a successful project. What will the Champion and Sponsor want for a result when the project is completed? Also I would read Andrew Downard's article from June 2006 Wither Certification This will give you another perspective. Good luck with your career development.

Thanx Stephen

As I said, I want to apply my SS knowledge and work on SS projects. Getting certification is not very difficult. There are many offering them and in many cases, all I have to do is to give an exam.
My present company does not implement SS. I am looking for to work on SS projects in other companies in India right now.
Ultimately, I too feel to go ahead with ASQ certification, but before that I have to work on project and furnish an affidavit.

What is the difficulty of the ASQ Six Sigma Green Belt? I have studied Operations Management and taken various statistics courses. Learned about TQM. I am 23 years old. I want to know if pursuing the Six Sigma Green Belt is as difficult as I imagine. Of course I will be doing this "self-taught" buying the study books and references and what not.

Has anyone taken the Six Sigma Green Belt?
I've been reading comments and you guys are well adverse in your education credentials. But if anyone has taken it, what does it consist of, the test that is. Mainly pure statistical calculations or more theorhetical questions?

to add to the comment above, I've taken the quiz on the ASQ site to see where I stand. I've gotten a 75% just for the kicks of doing it. My information is not as fresh as it use to but still there. So I just wonder my chances are. I've never dealt with using SPC methods at any company. Just a student trying to get all his credentials before anything.

I'm currently working in a financial services firm as quality control associate. I want to pursue my career in Quality and plan to do do the six sigma green belt to begin with. what i wanted to know was how do i go about doing my project, if there's no chance of me doing it through my company at least in the near future.

I've recently obtained my SSBB from AVETA Business Solutions. Honestly, any credential earned within the six sigma world is only as strong as the competencies and abilities of the person in question. The designation will "get your foot in the door" if you can find a position that is seeking either an intern or an entry level change agent. But it is then up to you to create value for your organization through the DMAIC or by creating a process through DFSS - DMADV. If you are able to learn well without the need to be within a classroom environment, then I recommend AVETA. The Macromedia enabled applets used really do allow for most everyone to see how a regression analysis, hypothesis testing, etc. can be practical in nature, easily inputted and solved for in Minitab, excel, and how to interpret/explain results to executive management. The recommended book for the black belt course is written by Thomas Pyzdek, a renowned leader in the field of six sigma. The certificates that you earn after completion of the black belt course are pretty cool looking. Similar to something earned within a undergraduate program, like a certificate of achievement received along with your degree. I have no regrets, as I feel that I can easily address any process redesign, etc. issue within health care, or government entities.

Need some advice. Which is the best and recognised online six sigma course apart form ASQ & Villanova.
I want to give the six sigma green belt exam online. I can do either self study or study online. That is not the problem.
Requesting you valuable opinions.

I just passed the Villanova SSBB cert exam. Villanova has a great program but it does not teach you how to pass the cert exam. What it does teach you is how to apply the most widely used principles in SS.

I actually failed my first attempt at the cert exam. I thought the exam would just be over the SSBB Book of Knowledge. This was not the case; it is over a bunch of reference books.

It is over the BOK, videos in the cource, live lectures, as well as other popular books on SS.

The Villanova cource is great because they have a bunch of knowledable instructors who are excellent at teach all aspects of SS.

I took the GB, Lean, and BB course. The exam was very hard and I was glad it was that hard. It give Villanova more credability. I had 30 people in my class to take the cert exam and the class average was only 68%. Most of the people who passed the exam the first time has 10+ years in the career and still only pass in the mid to lower 70%.

If you have any more questions, just ask. I am just retiring from the Air Force after 20 years of service and too was looking for something to complement my Masters degree.

Thank you Chris. Unfortunately I cant devote time for Villanova online program. How is Aveta. Previous posts say, its good learning. But is it recognised too?
Which are other recognised programs, in & outside USA.

I have never heard of Aveta. Sorry.

I found some courses in expertrating.com
they provide some cheap courses and also the content is preety much the same as the others. wonder if it will be alright to do a course from them??